As a freelance editor Greta has worked on all kinds of video content, with her documentary and narrative work shown at film festivals across the country - most recently at MIFF 2019 with short film Kids on Fire. Greta has a heap of good advice about freelance work, based on her first hand experience. Here we'll talk how to signify the change between work/play, work spaces, protecting yourself and your work as freelancer, and why you don't have to do everything all at once. Read, or listen, to the interview below.
GR: The thing about freelance for me at the moment, that is both the most exciting thing and the most daunting thing, is that there's no consistency. So I feel like I can never say no to jobs because I never know if it’ll be really quiet the next week, it might be really quiet in 2 weeks. I think a lot of time people get -from an editor’s perspective, a lot of clients put a lot of planning into the pre-production and that might take them a few weeks, and then they might get an editor last so I tend to only ever get jobs one or two weeks in advance, so my calendar always looks pretty empty after that which is a bit daunting sometimes.
EM: When you started your degree, you're a Freelancer now, you had crack at freelancing straight away -and then a couple of things happening between then and you’re back to it now. So can you tell us a little bit about your working journey from from then to now?
GR: Sure thing, editing was definitely something that I had a bit of interest in at uni, and then I finished uni, I had a retail job on the side and was trying to do a couple freelance jobs here and there, wherever I could get them but I definitely still needed that retail job for side money, and wasn't prepared to take the big leap -so for probably a year I balanced the two, and I wasn't very disciplined with my time. I think going from school and then uni, you're so deadline-driven and there's outside forces telling you to get things in, planning out schedules for you to have drafts and things in, and then just being on my own, trying to work, being tired after work, trying to do freelance work, it was a bit of a challenge. I didn't do a great job balancing it, there were a lot of times where I would put off all day doing this work, that was pretty simple and then at night just be forced to do it when I’d rather be doing anything else. So I was doing that for about a year balancing the two, then I got really tired of my retail job and thought ‘all right, I'll just give it a go.’
The pressure of trying to get freelance work, trying to be efficient with my freelance work, with my time -I just never really got the balance of it right. It was a bit of a struggle looking for more regular part-time/full-time work as an editor, which was maybe a bit less creative that I had initially wanted but I did end up finding a really good kind of middle ground job where I was just editing content for an organisation that made content for not-for-profits. So did that for a couple of years, until the end of last year when I decided that I needed a change! I applied for an assistant editor position on a feature film through Film Victoria. I luckily got it, and was able to quit my job and work on a film for a few months, and I’ve just given freelancing another go! And it's had a lot better results for me this time.
EM: What would you say is the difference between then when you first had a go at it and now?
GR: The biggest difference to me was through working full-time for two years, working a desk job, although there are a few things about it that aren’t very inspiring -it is really good at getting you used to working at 9-5, sitting down at a desk, doing what you need to do. Because of that I can now in my own time just sit down and do it, I'm not just making a million cups of tea, and cleaning my house, and finding anything else in the world to do apart from sit down at my desk. I know that I wake up in the morning and make breakfast, I always put my shoes on, ‘cause that is some sort of signifier in my head that I am ready to work. I do my eyebrows, put my shoes on, and then I go sit at my desk upstairs. I've got a really good space in my house, at the opposite end of my house, so I'm not just working out of my bedroom. Like, I do get up, get dressed, and go sit down at my desk, and because I’m used to that full time work before, I'm able to just get stuff done.
EM: The procrasticleaning is real. (laughs)
GR: There’s benefits!
EM: You mentioned you have a space separate away from your bedroom, is it super important when you're a freelancer to have that space where you can work? What are the key features of that space that mean you are ready to go when you sit down?
GR: I think in any job, creative or any other field, I think for your own mental health having a separation between your work and you're play time is really important and having things that signify that, whether it's changing your clothes when you get home, or having a cup of tea when you get home from work, or taking the dogs for a walk, just something to signify that change -and that's important a different way when you're working from home. I'm probably a lot more relaxed than I would be if I was working in an office somewhere, but it's also important to still have those signifiers because I don't want to be switched on working all the time. Having an office setup my house that's at the opposite side of my house is really nice, obviously that’s not a thing you can always plan for that just happens to be where the spare room in my house is -but I have a really beautiful desk in there, I have a monitor in there that I work from -so I’ve got a laptop stand and it's really critical for your back if you're going to be spending a lot of time on the computer. I did my neck when I first started working full-time at a desk. My osteo was like, ‘you have to get a keyboard and a laptop stand right now,’ and that was a really good point! So, looking after physical self is really important for you ability to keep working, especially when you're working freelance and you probably don't have sick leave. So having all those things set up, obviously I take my laptop back to my room to watch shows and my laptop travels around the house, but I do have equipment that just stays in my room and makes me feel like I've got a desk that I'm going to. I've got my books and all my camera stuff in there so it is it's just like a mini office for me.
EM: I wanted to talk to you about something you mentioned the first time I saw you talk, you had a year of just saying yes to stuff. That's a really cool concept. Can you talk about how that helped you?
GR: I think it got to a point at the start of last year, I was thinking maybe I want to start moving on from this job that I've been working for a while soon, but whenever I looked at my CV to go to send people -there's nothing creative on it since uni, and that's when, you know, 2013 to 2018 not having any any real creative projects is getting to be quite a while. If I was going to step away from my job soon I’d need other things on there, and also wanted to prove myself a bit that I still could do those things. There are always things going; on the internet, or among friends, there are always people posting things that they need help with, so many that it's pretty easy to tune them out. So I started actually seeking them out more, and said yes to a couple of music videos that people had shot, someone else had a doco trailer they wanted edited, and so I just got a couple of those under my belt, and then a couple of short films, and then things just start to spiral because people pass your name on ‘cause they like what you did on one thing, or they've heard about you. Then also I started to get more confidence because then I knew I could actually edit narrative, I didn't just have to do doco, I could be a bit more creative. I built up quite a collection of side projects outside of my main work, and then I felt good about applying for jobs -and I got one pretty quickly that I didn't think I’d get! So it definitely itself paid off, there were a lot of times last year, and still are when I come home from work, and then work another 3 or 4 hours at night on a project that I wasn’t getting paid for -some of them were exciting, some of them were definitely less exciting, but it was all worth it in the end.
EM: Moving away from what we just talked about, how do you go about protecting yourself and your work in terms of communicating with clients, setting contracts, invoices -that kind of thing?
GR: I think when you’re freelancing protecting yourself is such a big thing. You actually just have to look after everything for yourself because there's no one else, don't have a safety net which is scary -but also for anyone who has worked under a boss and wished they didn't have that boss you can imagine that’s some real perks working for yourself as well. A big thing with clients for me is email etiquette -and just being extra clear in your communications. So a good tip that I got, or have sort of gleaned from working is that if you have a phone conversation with a client where you're talking about anything important, be it deadlines, the quote, anything that you need from them or they need from you -that everyone might forget the details of, dates for shoots, whose responsibility certain tasks are... once you had that phone conversation I think it's really important to back it up with an email where you just outline what was said, just having that written communication so that, you know, that's a really good safety blanket to have. Then also with things like quotes and invoices, I think it's really important to put the terms of your payment in your initial quote because that's what the people are agreeing to, that you’re entering into and agreement with. So I might write, ‘please pay within 2 weeks’ on my invoice, but people probably still won’t pay for a month or a month and a half. It's really a bit of a wild wild west out there so as much as you can try and make things clear from the outset, that will help you to try and get people to pay you on time.
EM: It’s one of the more glamorous parts of of being a freelancing, chasing up invoices!
GR: Yeah. No one likes -You always feel sad sending an email saying ‘can you please pay me,’ even if it's well within your rights. It’s hard not to feel desperate but it's definitely a big part of working freelance.
EM: What do you wish you knew when you started?
GR: I think even after school and then especially after uni, I always put a lot of pressure on myself, time pressure. I really wanted to just jump straight into making stuff and like, everyone kind of wants to be some sort of prodigal creative talent and have all these great film ideas that you pull out of thin air, and the longer I work, the more I think I’d actually have much better ideas now because of the life experience I have now that I didn't have even, you know, when I was at uni 5 years ago. I can only imagine that's going to keep getting greater, so I'm not putting huge pressure on myself any more to try and make things straight away because I'm not worried that the world is going to pass me by and I won’t have a chance to make it. I think I’ve got time now, you will always find time later, like you don't actually have to do everything all at once -and being able to relax into that and know that everything that I was doing was building up my skills that mean I'm now more capable of doing these creative projects that I'm still thinking up and that have returned to me is exciting.
︎︎︎︎
︎︎︎︎
GR: The thing about freelance for me at the moment, that is both the most exciting thing and the most daunting thing, is that there's no consistency. So I feel like I can never say no to jobs because I never know if it’ll be really quiet the next week, it might be really quiet in 2 weeks. I think a lot of time people get -from an editor’s perspective, a lot of clients put a lot of planning into the pre-production and that might take them a few weeks, and then they might get an editor last so I tend to only ever get jobs one or two weeks in advance, so my calendar always looks pretty empty after that which is a bit daunting sometimes.EM: When you started your degree, you're a Freelancer now, you had crack at freelancing straight away -and then a couple of things happening between then and you’re back to it now. So can you tell us a little bit about your working journey from from then to now?
GR: Sure thing, editing was definitely something that I had a bit of interest in at uni, and then I finished uni, I had a retail job on the side and was trying to do a couple freelance jobs here and there, wherever I could get them but I definitely still needed that retail job for side money, and wasn't prepared to take the big leap -so for probably a year I balanced the two, and I wasn't very disciplined with my time. I think going from school and then uni, you're so deadline-driven and there's outside forces telling you to get things in, planning out schedules for you to have drafts and things in, and then just being on my own, trying to work, being tired after work, trying to do freelance work, it was a bit of a challenge. I didn't do a great job balancing it, there were a lot of times where I would put off all day doing this work, that was pretty simple and then at night just be forced to do it when I’d rather be doing anything else. So I was doing that for about a year balancing the two, then I got really tired of my retail job and thought ‘all right, I'll just give it a go.’
The pressure of trying to get freelance work, trying to be efficient with my freelance work, with my time -I just never really got the balance of it right. It was a bit of a struggle looking for more regular part-time/full-time work as an editor, which was maybe a bit less creative that I had initially wanted but I did end up finding a really good kind of middle ground job where I was just editing content for an organisation that made content for not-for-profits. So did that for a couple of years, until the end of last year when I decided that I needed a change! I applied for an assistant editor position on a feature film through Film Victoria. I luckily got it, and was able to quit my job and work on a film for a few months, and I’ve just given freelancing another go! And it's had a lot better results for me this time.
EM: What would you say is the difference between then when you first had a go at it and now?
GR: The biggest difference to me was through working full-time for two years, working a desk job, although there are a few things about it that aren’t very inspiring -it is really good at getting you used to working at 9-5, sitting down at a desk, doing what you need to do. Because of that I can now in my own time just sit down and do it, I'm not just making a million cups of tea, and cleaning my house, and finding anything else in the world to do apart from sit down at my desk. I know that I wake up in the morning and make breakfast, I always put my shoes on, ‘cause that is some sort of signifier in my head that I am ready to work. I do my eyebrows, put my shoes on, and then I go sit at my desk upstairs. I've got a really good space in my house, at the opposite end of my house, so I'm not just working out of my bedroom. Like, I do get up, get dressed, and go sit down at my desk, and because I’m used to that full time work before, I'm able to just get stuff done.
EM: The procrasticleaning is real. (laughs)
GR: There’s benefits!
EM: You mentioned you have a space separate away from your bedroom, is it super important when you're a freelancer to have that space where you can work? What are the key features of that space that mean you are ready to go when you sit down?
GR: I think in any job, creative or any other field, I think for your own mental health having a separation between your work and you're play time is really important and having things that signify that, whether it's changing your clothes when you get home, or having a cup of tea when you get home from work, or taking the dogs for a walk, just something to signify that change -and that's important a different way when you're working from home. I'm probably a lot more relaxed than I would be if I was working in an office somewhere, but it's also important to still have those signifiers because I don't want to be switched on working all the time. Having an office setup my house that's at the opposite side of my house is really nice, obviously that’s not a thing you can always plan for that just happens to be where the spare room in my house is -but I have a really beautiful desk in there, I have a monitor in there that I work from -so I’ve got a laptop stand and it's really critical for your back if you're going to be spending a lot of time on the computer. I did my neck when I first started working full-time at a desk. My osteo was like, ‘you have to get a keyboard and a laptop stand right now,’ and that was a really good point! So, looking after physical self is really important for you ability to keep working, especially when you're working freelance and you probably don't have sick leave. So having all those things set up, obviously I take my laptop back to my room to watch shows and my laptop travels around the house, but I do have equipment that just stays in my room and makes me feel like I've got a desk that I'm going to. I've got my books and all my camera stuff in there so it is it's just like a mini office for me.
EM: I wanted to talk to you about something you mentioned the first time I saw you talk, you had a year of just saying yes to stuff. That's a really cool concept. Can you talk about how that helped you?
GR: I think it got to a point at the start of last year, I was thinking maybe I want to start moving on from this job that I've been working for a while soon, but whenever I looked at my CV to go to send people -there's nothing creative on it since uni, and that's when, you know, 2013 to 2018 not having any any real creative projects is getting to be quite a while. If I was going to step away from my job soon I’d need other things on there, and also wanted to prove myself a bit that I still could do those things. There are always things going; on the internet, or among friends, there are always people posting things that they need help with, so many that it's pretty easy to tune them out. So I started actually seeking them out more, and said yes to a couple of music videos that people had shot, someone else had a doco trailer they wanted edited, and so I just got a couple of those under my belt, and then a couple of short films, and then things just start to spiral because people pass your name on ‘cause they like what you did on one thing, or they've heard about you. Then also I started to get more confidence because then I knew I could actually edit narrative, I didn't just have to do doco, I could be a bit more creative. I built up quite a collection of side projects outside of my main work, and then I felt good about applying for jobs -and I got one pretty quickly that I didn't think I’d get! So it definitely itself paid off, there were a lot of times last year, and still are when I come home from work, and then work another 3 or 4 hours at night on a project that I wasn’t getting paid for -some of them were exciting, some of them were definitely less exciting, but it was all worth it in the end.
EM: Moving away from what we just talked about, how do you go about protecting yourself and your work in terms of communicating with clients, setting contracts, invoices -that kind of thing?
GR: I think when you’re freelancing protecting yourself is such a big thing. You actually just have to look after everything for yourself because there's no one else, don't have a safety net which is scary -but also for anyone who has worked under a boss and wished they didn't have that boss you can imagine that’s some real perks working for yourself as well. A big thing with clients for me is email etiquette -and just being extra clear in your communications. So a good tip that I got, or have sort of gleaned from working is that if you have a phone conversation with a client where you're talking about anything important, be it deadlines, the quote, anything that you need from them or they need from you -that everyone might forget the details of, dates for shoots, whose responsibility certain tasks are... once you had that phone conversation I think it's really important to back it up with an email where you just outline what was said, just having that written communication so that, you know, that's a really good safety blanket to have. Then also with things like quotes and invoices, I think it's really important to put the terms of your payment in your initial quote because that's what the people are agreeing to, that you’re entering into and agreement with. So I might write, ‘please pay within 2 weeks’ on my invoice, but people probably still won’t pay for a month or a month and a half. It's really a bit of a wild wild west out there so as much as you can try and make things clear from the outset, that will help you to try and get people to pay you on time.
EM: It’s one of the more glamorous parts of of being a freelancing, chasing up invoices!
GR: Yeah. No one likes -You always feel sad sending an email saying ‘can you please pay me,’ even if it's well within your rights. It’s hard not to feel desperate but it's definitely a big part of working freelance.
EM: What do you wish you knew when you started?
GR: I think even after school and then especially after uni, I always put a lot of pressure on myself, time pressure. I really wanted to just jump straight into making stuff and like, everyone kind of wants to be some sort of prodigal creative talent and have all these great film ideas that you pull out of thin air, and the longer I work, the more I think I’d actually have much better ideas now because of the life experience I have now that I didn't have even, you know, when I was at uni 5 years ago. I can only imagine that's going to keep getting greater, so I'm not putting huge pressure on myself any more to try and make things straight away because I'm not worried that the world is going to pass me by and I won’t have a chance to make it. I think I’ve got time now, you will always find time later, like you don't actually have to do everything all at once -and being able to relax into that and know that everything that I was doing was building up my skills that mean I'm now more capable of doing these creative projects that I'm still thinking up and that have returned to me is exciting.
Greta’s interview was part of the first iteration of make it, work released in October, 2019.
You can find more about Greta and her work here.
Many thanks to Greta for taking the time to talk with us.
You can find more about Greta and her work here.
Many thanks to Greta for taking the time to talk with us.